"There is no one way to get free from the trap of worldly passions. Suppose you caught a snake, a crocodile, a bird, a dog, a fox and a monkey, six creatures of very different natures, and you tie them together with a strong rope and let them go. Each of these six creatures will try to go back to its own lair by its own method:
The snake will head for a covering of grass, the crocodile will seek water, the bird will want to fly in the air, the dog will seek a village, the fox will seek the solitary ledges, and the monkey will seek the trees of a forest. In the attempt of each to go its own way there will be a struggle, but, being tied together by a rope, the strongest at any one time will drag the rest. Like the creatures in this parable, man is tempted in different ways by the desires of his sex senses, eyes, ears, nose, tongue, touch and mind, and is controlled by the predominant desire.
If the six creatures are all tied to a post, they will try to get free still... until they are tired out, and then will lie down by the post. Just like this, if people will train and control the mind there will be no further trouble from the other five senses. If the mind is under control people will have happiness both now and in the future." -Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai
So.... the above passage is such a repetitive, common theme in Buddhism. And, lets face it, if I didn't put some belief in that passage, I wouldn't really be Buddhist. But, your also talking to a Pagan. That is to say, I look below my feet for divinity, just as much as I look above my head. I believe in Magick, and (I have seen evidence...) that it believes in me. Yet I find myself at odds, because Paganism in general honors the 5 (Sometimes 6) senses as something sacred, but, at least according to my studies, it seems like Buddhism does the opposite.
I'm opening this up to some LIGHT-HEARTED discussion, as the thought of the day, so to speak! I don’t want to debate, but rather, just spark some interesting conversation and encourage you all to share your own opinions.
What are some of your thoughts? As, I know there have to be a few of you out there who are Buddhist, and Pagan. I've met many in my time!!!
With much Love & Respect,
Curt
P.S. When I say “Magick,” I’m referring to the ability to change the world and it’s energy, around you, through the power of your will, and ritual. When I say "Pagan" I'm referring to that Westernized blend of early Celt & Norse magick, witchcraft in general, earth-worship, occultism, and eastern mysticism. I don't know what else to call it. "Paganism" has definitely evolved, and melded many things together to make it what it is today. In deed, there is even a melding of the 2 found everywhere in Tibetan Buddhism... But, this is a topic for a whole other show!!! ;-)
The snake will head for a covering of grass, the crocodile will seek water, the bird will want to fly in the air, the dog will seek a village, the fox will seek the solitary ledges, and the monkey will seek the trees of a forest. In the attempt of each to go its own way there will be a struggle, but, being tied together by a rope, the strongest at any one time will drag the rest. Like the creatures in this parable, man is tempted in different ways by the desires of his sex senses, eyes, ears, nose, tongue, touch and mind, and is controlled by the predominant desire.
If the six creatures are all tied to a post, they will try to get free still... until they are tired out, and then will lie down by the post. Just like this, if people will train and control the mind there will be no further trouble from the other five senses. If the mind is under control people will have happiness both now and in the future." -Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai
So.... the above passage is such a repetitive, common theme in Buddhism. And, lets face it, if I didn't put some belief in that passage, I wouldn't really be Buddhist. But, your also talking to a Pagan. That is to say, I look below my feet for divinity, just as much as I look above my head. I believe in Magick, and (I have seen evidence...) that it believes in me. Yet I find myself at odds, because Paganism in general honors the 5 (Sometimes 6) senses as something sacred, but, at least according to my studies, it seems like Buddhism does the opposite.
I'm opening this up to some LIGHT-HEARTED discussion, as the thought of the day, so to speak! I don’t want to debate, but rather, just spark some interesting conversation and encourage you all to share your own opinions.
What are some of your thoughts? As, I know there have to be a few of you out there who are Buddhist, and Pagan. I've met many in my time!!!
With much Love & Respect,
Curt
P.S. When I say “Magick,” I’m referring to the ability to change the world and it’s energy, around you, through the power of your will, and ritual. When I say "Pagan" I'm referring to that Westernized blend of early Celt & Norse magick, witchcraft in general, earth-worship, occultism, and eastern mysticism. I don't know what else to call it. "Paganism" has definitely evolved, and melded many things together to make it what it is today. In deed, there is even a melding of the 2 found everywhere in Tibetan Buddhism... But, this is a topic for a whole other show!!! ;-)
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Re: The logic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 9:29 AMHeHe... That should have read, "logic." Damn my phonetic spelling. BAH!
:-)
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Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Sun, January 18, 2004 - 3:32 AMPlease clarify and explain how Buddism "does the opposite", in terms of generally honoring "the 5 (Sometimes 6) senses as something sacred".
By the way, what is there to believe or not to believe in the parable?
Finally, logic can be magical too. When solving an extremely difficult problem, the ultimate answer may appear miraculously simple; however, that does take away the wonderment. Buddhism can be "magical" too. O;-)
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Unsu...
Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Sat, June 19, 2004 - 10:00 PMhmmmm... i think that with all that buddha nature tied together the dog would eat the fox the snake would eat the dog the crocodile would eat the snake and then while the crocodile was digesting it all the monkey would catch the bird then dangle it in front of the crocodile when it got hungry again and then ride it all over the place marveling over the power it had over the world with it's crocodile... until that is, the monkey passes out from exhaustion and the crocodile takes and stuffs them both under a log for later, chews off the rope and hangs out waiting for the next person to tie a snake, a bird, a dog, a fox and a monkey to him.
i think i like your description better though.
:)
i'm not sure that the goal is to train the mind to block out these receptors, just to not dwell on them. don't let one aspect make you lose your full mind. they aren't individual aspects of a label, they 'are' the mind.
kinda like the various multi armed dieties.
they are doing a bunch of different things with each different hand. if they focus on one hand too much they lose track of the other hands, if they listen to much they might not see, if they taste too much they might not catch the scent of a flower on the breeze. but if they appreciate all of their aspects, their entire being then they are devine and on their way to enligtenment i would guess.
i'm not buddhist but i try to be, and i spend a lot of time in people free backcountry walking around in nature so i know there is something more than myself, maybe it's the energy that you write about here? i don't know that i feel at conflict because i find it all so amazing, because it just is!
That's its nature.
no eyes, no ears, no tongue, no body, no mind... is everything that is all amazing still there? why spend time worrying about it when you could just be part of it?
wow, i need to go buy some soap.
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Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Tue, June 29, 2004 - 5:43 PMI think you may have missed the point. Please don't take offense from the following opinion.
Buddhism is about freeing your mind from meaningless rituals like those that you profess to engage in. Astrology, numerology, magick, rituals, rites, traditions, prayer to (the) god(s), prayers to buddha, lighting incense in offering to buddha or the celestial beings.
Buddhism is more about freeing yourself from your self. As human beings, we generally have the misconception that within us and everything else there exists a "soul", something unmutable that contains the very essence of that being. How we act flavors that soul, paints the picture of the selves that we want to be.
The want to be a fireman, want to be a painter, want to be a pagan, want to be a buddhist.... these are all desires and can only lead to suffering in the end. Trying to be something.
But that's just it, a buddhist doesn't want to *be* anything because a buddhist understands there is nothing to be.
All humans have minds, and buddhism puts the mind in the forefront of it as a religion. Buddhists are encouraged to question everything. Buddhists are encouraged to find their own answers instead of having the answers spoon fed to them. Buddhists are encouraged to not live as stubborn creatures of habit. Buddhists are encouraged to revisit and rethink things.
In questioning everything, one should also question things that are commonly associated with buddhism... Tibetan Buddhism. What is that? It includes a lot of doctrines, rituals, and practices that are thoroughly NOT Buddhism. These things complicate what would otherwise be a very simple religion.
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Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Wed, June 30, 2004 - 1:01 AMHere's what comes up for me when I read your post. The animals act according to their nature. They don't question - they just are (no judgement on this - they are neither "good" or "evil"). We as humans, on the otherhand, are confused, question our existence and search for meaning. Only man can tie down the animals to the post. Left to themseles - the animals just "are".
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Unsu...
Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Wed, June 30, 2004 - 8:54 AMCurt,
Thank you for this post. Wow. It's not every day I see someone quoting work published by the BDK!
Speaking of the BDK, how familiar are you with this organization and their motivations? I ask because they have a vary particular view of Buddhism. And I'm guessing that I know where this quote comes from. If I'm right, it's got a very particular reason for being worded the way it is.
On the surface, it seems like Buddhism wants to do away with magic in pursuit of logic. But I think that's a rather simplistic oversimplification of a complex religious tradition which has built within it (from earliest times) a helluva lot of ritual and references to spuernatural abilities open to anyone.
After all, it's said that Bodhisattvas never actually touch the earth when they walk lest they kill an insect. -
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Re: The lodgic of Buddha VS. the Magick of the Occult...
Fri, July 16, 2004 - 3:22 AMI'm not familiar with magick and paganism, but I do practice Reiki, and recently, Qi Gong, and my belief is that energy is energy is energy. This energy can be thought and talked about through logic, but is experienced only through connection with one's true self and the universe. There are many paths to connection to our true self and the universe, and I have experienced that the energy found there can be channeled. So I don't see a "vs." needed regarding Buddhism, the occult, or other religions or energy practices. The place it gets tricky is in attachment to the means (dogma, dharma, icons, ritual) rather than just using it for our connection. All religions and practices have some stories and even politics built up around them. They also contain the same threads of universal truth. Regardless of how the stories around these practices go, it doesn't negate the actual life-force energy and connection that is there to be experienced.
Same goes for the senses. We get into trouble with our attachment to them, but they are not troublesome in and of themselves. As has been said in other posts, the senses are our receptors to our experiences in this life. They are great tools for mindful and enjoyable living. We can appreciate them as such without being run by them. That's the trick. If Paganism celebrates them as such, then I say, well, yay!
I like what Scott said about supernatural senses. Some things are "super" natural, only because humankind has somehow forgotten these natural abilities and so they now seem like superhuman powers.
Curt, you say you look below your feet for divinity as well. The Earth, along with the heavens, mountains, plant life, and oceans, is seen by many energy practitioners as the source of universal life --chi, ki, qi, Holy Ghost, whatever you want to call it, it's all the same thing. This has been one of the most exciting findings of my personal inquiries and experiments. If, in Paganism, divinity underfoot means honoring "the dark side," (excuse me if I'm misunderstanding, I'm speaking from ignorance here), then I see that as honoring the yin/yang balance of things. It's all good as long as we don't get hung up in attachment to imagery and icons rather than honoring the energies they represent.
-Rene, writing in a haze of insomnia and hoping it makes sense in the morning
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